inspired by nazi germany. a great sideshow moment coming up tonight. let's start with the future of space flight. and the president's remarks at the kennedy space center today down in florida. democratic florida senator, bill nelson sits on the science and transportation committee. he himself orbited this earth aboard the space shuttle columbia back in '86. senator, it's great to have you on, you're the best possible guest we can have. you've flown in space, you represent cape canaveral, cape kennedy. you believe in manned space. let's listen together to the president on the moon and you react. here he is, let's listen. >> i understand that some believe we should attempt a return to the surface of the moon first. as previously planned. but i just have to say -- pretty bluntly here, we've been there before. buzz has been there. there's a lot more of space to explore and a lot more to learn when we do.

so i believe it's more important to ramp up our capabilities to reach and operate at a series of increasingly demanding targets. while advancing our technological capabilities with each step forward. and that's what this strategy does. >> well i guess the big question is, are we still the great space pioneers we were under kennedy? kennedy launched us to the moon. we got there under nixon. we loved it. are we still going to be the leaders in space 10, 20 years from now, senator nelson? >> yes, sir, we are. and i think the president set us on a course and he said we were on the moon 40 years ago. we don't need to go back to the moon. we need to get out into deep space. and one of the great things he did today, chris, is he set destinati destinations and a timetable in deep space. he talked about being on an asteroid in 2025. and that's after we developed the heavy-lift vehicle, which our committee is going to

continue to develop. and the president said he wanted it at least by 2015. the architecture. >> is this just about thrust? what's it take to get from here to the moon, i'm sorry, we got to the moon as you pointed out, decades ago. what's it take to get to mars? let's watch the president. f a lot of americans would like to get to mars. it's not the number one ambition, a lot of people are just thinking about friday night and the next paycheck. but mars is interesting. let's listen to what the president said about mars. >> unlike the previous program, we're setting a course with specific and achievable milestones. early in the next decade, a set of crude flights will test and prove that the systems required for exploration beyond lower-earth orbit. and by 2025, we expect new spacecraft designed for long journeys to allow us to begin the first-ever crude missions beyond the moon, into deep space. by the mid 2030's, i believe we

can send humans to orbit mars and return them safely to earth. and a landing on mars will follow. i expect to be around to see it. >> that's optimistic. we all hope to be there in 2030, i think. my question is, are we going to get to mars? and what does it take that we don't have? >> well, we have to develop new technologies. right now, we send humans to mars, it takes us ten months to get there. chris, one of my crewmates is developing a plasma rocket to take us to mars in 39 days. if you went under conventional technology to mars, whenever they have a solar explosion, our astronauts would get fried. you've got to create the kind of protection, probably a magnetic field, that will protect you from that solar radiation. those are the kinds of things. we don't have it today. but the president setting us on a course, saying we're going there, we're going first to an

asteroid. then we're going to deeper space. maybe a mars fly-by. and then eventually to the surface of mars. you've got to set the vision just like president kennedy did. and then you start working toward it. >> okay. what's this kerfuffle about the other day, why did neil armstrong take a shot at the president? what's his problem with the president's program, as you understand it? >> you know, i don't understand it, chris. because people, his crewmate, buzz aldrin, certainly feels differently. sally ryde feels differently. i think what buzz -- what neil was reacting to, was the perception, which was real, a real perception that the president had canceled the manned space program. and of course, in my visits with the president, i said, you've got to turn this around, because that's not what you believe. and i think he turned that

around today, if people will listen to the specifics of what he said, and he did it in a very eloquent and visionary way. >> what are we getting out of space travel? a lot of my producers and people i work with here have asked me the big question, we go up, we come back. what do we bring back? it's not a joke, when i was single, i've got to tell you, i drank a lot of tang. it was one thing i could keep in the house without worrying about anything with iced cubes. i could make tang. i could make instant coffee. besides tang, what have we gotten out of the space program, for us, here on earth? >> well for example, when we went to the moon, you had to develop highly reliable systems that were small in volume and light in weight. and that ignited the entire microminiaturization. the photography that we have today came as a direct spinoff of the space program. modern miracle medicines, for

example equipment. mris, a lot of the digital stuff has come directly out of the space program. the list is so long, you can't believe it. and if you want something simple -- velcro. use velcro instead of tang, because tang really wasn't used in the space program. >> that's just a myth, huh? >> it is. they actually have all kinds of good juices up there now. >> okay. let's take a look at the president, a serious note here, is the president on our leadership in space. let's finish up with this, senator, here's the president. >> our goal is no longer just a destination to reach. our goal is the capacity for people to work and learn and operate and live safely beyond the earth, for extended periods of time. ultimately, in ways that are more sustainable and even indefinite.

in fulfilling this task, we will not only extend humanity's reach in space, we will strengthen america's leadership here on earth. >> wow. you know, what jacqueline kennedy wanted to have as a memorial to her president when he was killed, besides the eternal flame, she wanted one other thing, senator. i'm telling you, i tell everybody, i just dug this up. she wanted to have jack's signature, she wanted bob mcnamara, the secretary of defense, just to write jack's name on the next saturn rocket, one that was going to beat the soviets in the next fight, in the next race to space. that's all she wanted for her husband who had been killed. your final thought, we're going to be the leader in space, right? >> it's part of our destiny as an american people. we are by nature explorers and adventurers, we've always had a frontier. that's why people down here were upset, chris, when they thought the president had canceled the manned program. but i think he showed he has

that vision for us to fulfill our destiny of exploring the heavens. >> it's great to have you on. i mean that, really, senator ben nelson of florida, sir, an honor to have you on tonight. coming up, a big tax day protest, they've comb home. we'll talk to one of the organizers. but first, during the break, a one-minute hypothetical matchup to test president obama against republican opponents. somebody really smart. somebody who is really smart has dug this up. we'll have his numbers and how they compare between the president and possible opponents next time. you're watching "hardball." and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. somewhere in america... there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life.

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obama beats mitt romney w why -- by the smallest margin. look how hi beats palin by 14 points. he beats everybody. we'll be right back with "hardball."

i think they don't realize that your iq scores are way above average. we're on to them! we're on to this gamester government. >> wow, gangster government. it's tough out there. welcome back to "hardball." that was minnesota congresswoman michelle bachman. i think we made her here. at a tea party tax rally in d.c. today. she said they're smarter, tea party folk. a new poll tells us more about them. it was in the "new york times" we'll talk about throughout the program tonight. what do they want? ryan hecker is a national coordinator for the today's tea party patriots. he helped put together the contract from america. that's well written. and colin is the president of

"let freedom ring." look at the latest poll we just got from "the new york times." it asks people in the tea party movement how do you usually vote. and the numbers are pretty amazing. they almost always vote republican. according to this. always republican, 18. usually republican, 48. that's about two-thirds. and then about 5% that vote either occasionally or always democrat. the numbers are overwhelmingly republican. what is the difference? let me go, colin hannah, what's the difference between a republican and a tea party person. what's the difference? >> a tea party person is operating from principles, from a constitutional framework and is perhaps incidentally republican, chris. but doesn't necessarily subscribe to the party, contribute to the party, wear elephant ties and things like that. but their behavior is similar, because they're both, i think, rooted in the same set of america's founding principles. >> let me go to ryan hecker on that.

ryan, why do you need a separate party if you've got the republican party if your philosophy is the same? >> i think, i think first of all there are a lot of independents, a very high percentage of independents involved as well. and i would say that you know, we represent a limited government. group of people that support the constitution. and believe in good governance and transparency, which i think is an overwhelming majority of americans. >> aren't you guys with john boehner and mitch mcconnell, the republican leadership? what are your problems with them? >> i mean, i think the problems of the movement as a whole are -- you know, i don't think it's against any one politician or one elected official. i think it was just a general sense that the, that back in october, they were no longer representing necessarily the proxy of what people felt ideologically on the economic conservative front. >> and chris, primarily it's

primarily about winning elections and accumulating power. the tea party is a different kind of party, it's about principles. >> what principle leads your party to have only two-fifths, less than a majority of your party people, believe that president barack obama was born in the u.s.? three-fifths aren't willing to say he's an american. what is this ethnic thing going on in the tea party movement. three-fifths of your people won't simply say, hey, he's one of us, he's an american, i disagree with him on tax policy, and i may disagree with him dramatically on health care. but he's one of us. why do three-fifths of your members say, i'm not willing to say he's an american? what's the problem. you first, colin. >> i don't have a problem like that. and i don't think most of them do, either. >> they do. we just polled them. >> listen to me, chris. the point is, that president obama and those supporters around him have not answered perfectly simple and straightforward questions that would have put this to rest long ago. where is the proper

documentation? >> okay, okay. you're one of the birthers, then? >> i'm absolutely not a birther, chris. but the point is that the supporters of president obama have failed to answer in clear, simple terms and it feeds -- it feeds it. >> okay. this is where we start and this is where it gets crazy with a lot of your people. i want to go to ryan on this. this is where it gets wacky. when you were born, was there an announcement in the newspaper that you were born? i don't think there was for me, we weren't that prominent. but apparently for barack obama, they've gotten a newspaper back in hawaii, when he was born, announcing his birth. there's a document they make available in hawaii, you get it from the government, it says you were born there, what time and what hospital. what more do you want than a newspaper announcement at the time you were born, that you were born there. what more documentation would anybody want? ryan? >> i personally don't -- i personally don't prescribe to the whole birther movement. i think if you look at the

polls, over 48% of americans identify themselves as tea parties, while only 42% with barack obama. so i would question that there is a lack of trust there. in the american people generally for him. now, if a certain percentage -- >> three-fifths -- are you one of the birthers? because three-fifths of the tea party people are not willing to simply say, okay, he's another american like me. so why is that the case, ryan? >> i am not a birther. >> why are three-fifths of your numbers around you -- >> chris, you're trying to marginalize the grassroots movemen movement. >> i think you are marginalized. why are so many of you birthers? >> not i, and i -- >> i am not a birther and i don't think that this movement is about that. this movement is about economic conservative and big -- small government conservatism. so i mean you're speaking to a certain percentage in one poll and i don't think that one poll reflects anything. >> according to "the new york

times," 24%, a significant higher number than the rest of the country, believes that violence is sometimes appropriate when used against our own elected government. i want ryan to answer, why would anybody say that it's okay to use violence against the government? >> i don't believe in a democracy like this, that we need to engage in violence. i would think that you know, that during the revolutionary time period, we did engage in violence, to overturn a colonial authority. but i would not say that we should support violence now, by any stretch of the imagination. >> do you know anybody in the movement who does? >> no. >> no. i know absolutely no one in the movement that would ever say that they support violent action against the government. i'm sorry, i think that's a very extreme position. >> okay. let's talk turkey. and the economic issues, i know you want to reduce the amount of government in our lives. so here's the question -- the

music is pretty loud behind you. let me go to colin. a lot of people are retired benefit because they kicked into it. social security and medicare. they're the most expensive programs alongside interest on the national debt and the federal military. these are expensive programs, entitlement programs they're called. they're forced insurance. you're forced to buy, you have to pay a payroll tax when you go to work. your employer has to pay it. it's forced insurance against the possibility when you're old you won't have money to pay for yourself and your health care. why are the people in your movement so against forced insurance, they call the new health care bill forced insurance. when under the law, you can go to jail for not paying your payroll tax. not kicking into social security and medicare. yet overwhelmingly, according to the "new york times" poll, tea party people believe in medicare, they believe in social security and they believe that they're good deals for the country. they're good economics. so if you believe in social security and you believe in medicare, why is health care a different kettle of fish?

>> because it involves the forced or mandated purchase of a consumer product. something that goes far beyond any constitutional power, chris. this is not the same as a tax. the mandate is the principle objection from a constitutional ground to what's been proposed by the obama administration. and what's now been passed. and i think that it suffers some real constitutional vulnerability. >> okay. but if the government ran the health care program instead of having it run through private insurance companies, then it would be just like medicare and social security, it would be a tax that which would give you benefits and response. so would that be okay, constitutionally, if it was a government program? by your lights it would be. because medicare and social security are. those are taxes that you have to pay under the law and then you get benefits from. so if this health care plan were a single-payer system, then you would say, it would be okay? >> no, i'm saying that a single-payer system would avoid that particular constitutional

problem. but you add all of these things up together, and you project them out into the future. and you're in a situation where you're not only going to have federal debt exceeding the annual gross domestic product of the country, but you're going to have a federal deficit that is unprecedented. you're going to have federal spending well north of 25% of the total gdp. and those things become simply a bridge too far. they become financially unsustainable, chris. >> that's a good argument, that's a good argument. i like that argument. were you making that kind of argument, sir, under president bush when he doubled the national debt? >> actually, yes. >> we didn't hear you, we didn't see any protests like today in washington. let's go to ryan. you're out in the streets there with all of these people. why weren't you there when bush was here, doubling the national debt? not vetoing a single spending bill for eight years. taking us to iraq. by the way, i don't think a lot of libertarians thought that iraq was a great national enterprise, by the way. i'll bet a lot of people behind

you think it was the stupidest war we ever fought. but that's just my thinking. what do you think? where were you guys when bush was here? >> well we were there. i think what happened was, i mean it was october 2008. when t.a.r.p. was passed, that the entire, you know, kind of frustration about republicans rose to a real height. and i think that the automobile bailout, and then the takeover and then the stimulus package really drove us out onto the streets in protest. so i think that there was a rumbling during you know, during, i think it's a nonpartisan movement and there was a rumbling during bush that really peaked with the stimulus package. >> exactly. frs >> gentlemen, one last question, yes or no. if john mccain had won the election -- in november of 2008, you fellows would be right where you are right now with the tea party, just as mad as hell. you, first, colin and then ryan. you'd be just as mad if mccain had won, continuing the bush

policies? >> if the kind of spending that we've seen in the last year and a half were the case, absolutely. but i don't think that's likely to have been the case. what's happened, chris, is that the overspending has accelerated. not simply that it existed back in the bush years, of course it did. but then it got worse. so that's where it started, now it's expanded. >> well part of the problem, sir, and you know as well as i do, we all study kensyn economics. this president was hit by a -- what could have been a second great depression, that's just my argument. we could have been in worse shape. that's my argument. i accept yours, you were very well spoken tonight. thank you for explaining your cause, i think there's a lot more crazy thinking in your crowd than you're willing to admit. but that's based upon the poll data we have tonight. >> that's your wishful thinking, chris. >> well it's "the new york times" poll. maybe that's the same thing. thank you, ryan hecker and colin

hannah. up next, jon stewart uses fox news's own logic against them. ountry, discover card customers are getting five percent cashback bonus at home improvement stores. it pays to get more, it pays to discover.

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back to "hardball," time for the "side show." first, fox news fans the flames. do you think barack obama is a secret muslim? catch this expo expose of his nuclear summit logo, followed by jon stewart's appreciation. >> that's the same thing that you see on the flags of turkey, algeria, tunisia and pakistan. what do they have in common? they're all muslim nations. so his claim is that the president deliberately put this as the logo to try to continue his outreach to muslim nations in a positive way. you be the judge. >> we're just letting you know about some bull while clearly

saying this is a message of the muss lym muslim world and we're stating our conclusion on our lower third graphic. a little bit of a logo there, a fox logo. the diagonal line. where have i seen those before? go full frame on that, computer, bring up that nazi propaganda poster that germany used to legitimize its invasion of poland. it should be part of the deutche land. frs kit, flip the logo. [ bleep ] oh, my god! >> it was great. by the way, stewart found out the white house says the idea for the summit model is from the at tom, they got it from the original idea of the at tom to have this summit logo.

next the elephant manager. last time republican party manager took a whack at his critics within the gop. listen up, it's artfully done. >> i work every day on this job to, as i like to put it, turn the elephant. now i don't know if any of you have ever had to turn the elephant. but the end you have to start with is not necessarily the best place to start. >> wow. why do i like steele more than his critics. now for the number, "the new york times"/cbs poll asked team -- tea partiers whether they thought the biggest star of their movement sarah palin, would be an effective president? only 40% of tea party people, but the bigger number has those who said either no, she wouldn't be an effective president, or just wouldn't say. 60% of tea party people, three out of five tea partiers, 60%, refused to vouch for sarah palin as an effective president. that's tonight's informative big number. she goes to all the rallies, maybe they got a problem with her. up next, should the tea party

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i'm christina brown. here's what's happening. the senate has just passed an $18 billion measure extending unemployment benefits for about 400,000 jobless benefits. huge clouds of volcanic arch are disrupting air travel. hundreds of flights have already been canceled. and the investigation into the assassination into pakistan's benazir bhutto finds her security arrangements were

deficient and authorities deliberately mishandled the investigation. authorities hammered a compound of several western companies and several western news agency today. three afghan soldiers and three foreigners killed. a new york city imam linked to a terror plot avoided jail time but must leave the country within nirnt days. and the president of kyrgyzstan left that country, easing fears of an impending civil war. it is all about this coming november. we have to take the house. then the senate and two years from now, barack obama is a one-term president! >> welcome back to "hardball." that was republican congresswoman and tea party favorite, michelle bachman.

at today's tea party rally in washington. a new poll gives us new concrete information for the first time about who's in the tea party. who they are and what they believe. what will they do in november? that's the big question, that's what matters to the parties. that's a question for our strategist. steve mcmahon, is a democratic strategist and todd harris is a republican strategist. let's go to this. according to the new "new york times" poll out today, tea party supporters are big surprises, older, better educated, more white as a group, more male and wealthier than the general population. hold those numbers up, if you can. i want todd to take a good look at your home team here. this looks very familiar to you. it looks -- would you please tell me, todd, how this is any different than the republican party? what's the between the t and the r party. just call them the r party. >> there's no question that a lot of tea party supporters are republicans. 90 some%. >> no. no. 30%, according to the "times,"

30% of tea party members are self-identified independents which is exactly why you see the democratic national committee today -- in 2008, they probably voted for obama. if they fit the ideological profile of both independents in 2006 and 2008, they probably broke for the democrats. one of the reasons -- >> because every other thing you ask them about, is obama an american? like two in five are willing to say yes. three out of five won't say that. one in five conservatives -- >> they're conservative bunch. >> you think they voted for barack obama not thinking he's an american? i think that's prime fascia they may not have voted for him. come on, these guys are pretty far out. >> the point is independents in 2006 and 2008 overwhelmingly broke for the democrats. one of the democratic party's biggest problems this cycle is they're going to lose independents. >> i don't believe they're independents. >> these are not people who broke for the democrats. if they don't think that barack obama was born in america, there's not very likely, there's not very much chance they voted for him in 2008.

hold on one second, todd. frs there's a word for this it's angry white republican men. they're angry white republican men. this "new york times" poll proves it. they're a bigger problem for the republicans frankly than they are for democrats because they were never going to vote for democrats. these are people who get their news from fox news channel, not from news sources that are unbiassed. they don't vote for democrats. they do vote for primary conservatives. >> i'll give you some numbers and plenty of time to respond. i think most people watching would say i hear you describing a republican. quote 52% of these people believe that the government and the american people have put too much attention on the problems facing black people over the years. they've given too much attention to the problems of black people. 52%. and they ask them, do you think that barack obama has been helping poor people too much. 56%. they don't sound like independents to me, they sound like republicans on the commuter train after a couple of drinks. just a thought. >> they're older, and they're

more white. so, yes, so their views about race are going to be different than the average younger american. there's no question. but the tea party movement is not about race. you look in that same poll, you say, do you care about social issues? no, they don't. they care about spending and they care about the size of government. and i'm telling you, if the democratic party continues to view them as just a bunch of poor uneducated rednecks, they do so at their own peril. >> they're not uneducated. this polling does proof that they have a very high degree percentage of people with college degrees, they have a lot of higher-educated people. >> they're not poor, they're not uneducated. >> they're better off, what do we call them, hicks, whatever, they're not poor people. they're well off. >> they're educated, they're affluent and they vote. which is why the democratic party has a big problem. >> but you're still calling them independents. >> they're not poor, they're not uneducated. but they clearly from those numbers, are racially less tolerant than the rest of america.

they vote for republicans. they get their news from the fox news channel. that's why they're a problem for republicans. because they either stay home or they go out there and they primary republicans like they're doing in states like colorado. and in nevada, harry reid is very happy that there's a tea party candidate challenging the republican party. >> a democratic source confirm there's a democratic party setting up talking points out there. you may have heard these. you may have written them. democrats understand and respect the anger of american people towards policies of the past decade that favored wall street and the big banks and the well-to-do. over american families. somebody is drying to ride the tea party horse here. >> everybody is trying to ride the tea party horse. >> defend yourself. you're not saying these guys as a bunch of racist. >> they're well-educated, angry, very affluent people, who are tired of the way that republicans spend and they threw a lot of republicans out and they're going to continue to. and frankly, they're not any happier with the democrats. which is why i think they either stay home or create further problems for the republicans by challenging them in primaries.

everyone is trying to ride this horse, because everybody understands that barack obama and a lot of democrats won in 2006 and 2008, because a lot of americans were angry with the policies of george bush that favored the wealthy, favored the big banks. these tea party people are no different in that respect, but in many other respects they are different. they don't think that barack obama was born in the united states. they think he's too african-american, he's favoring blacks. in that sense, they're not like independents, they're just like angry white republican men. it's why it's todd's problem, not mine. >> like i said, the issues of the tea party is a passionate about have nothing to do with race. by and large they have nothing to do with social issues, this is one of the first time since i've been involved in politics that i've seen the energy on the right, surrounding fiscal issues related to the budget, related to taxes, related to spending. normally republicans are fighting with about things like abortion and social issues.

the passion and energy on the right is related to fiscal issues. that's what is fueling the tea parties. >> would you stand in a rally with people surrounding you, with placards showing that barack obama, playing around with his racial features, making him look like a nazi. would you participate in a rally when you see those signs around you? >> no. >> why do people you call independents do that unless they're on the right. why don't they pull the signs down and say that's un-american buddy? i don't like big taxes any more than you do. but that sign is anti-american. i've never seen anybody pull anybody's sign down. >> i don't know why they don't do that. but what i'm telling you is this a real force in politics, this election cycle. and if the democratic party continues to write them all off as a bunch of racist rednecks -- >> hold on, you say it has nothing to do with race and it's not about social issues. the two biggest spending programs in the country, social security and medicare, are not programs that these people want to see scaled back. but you have to admit when you

look at these numbers, that they think barack obama is too african-american, he's favoring the african-americans over white people. he's favoring poor people over middle class people. they believe that. so there's a racial element here. whether or not you want to acknowledge it. todd would never go to these rallies, what is michele bachmann doing there? john boehner didn't go to these rallies, mitch mcconnell didn't go, michael steele didn't go. yesterday in massachusetts, mike brown didn't go, the republican candidate for governor didn't go who are these people -- >> you lay on a heavy hand. >> i'm pointing out the facts. >> final point. you take any group of older, older more affluent white voters and start asking them about race, it's going to skew differently than the public at large. >> todd, come to omaha with me sometime. it's not true. >> you say it's a demographic reality. >> it is a demographic reality. you're trying to say that racism is a republican thing. >> thank you. >> it is. >> up next, i'm going to ask outgoing service employees at the national employees union,

andy stern, about his organization forming a third party in north carolina to punish the three democratic u.s. congress people who vote agaid t against health care. but in one minute, you won't believe who pledged to archive all the world's tweets. this is "hardball" on msnbc. they work fast. so i can get relief from the pollen that used to make me sneeze. with new zyrtec® liquid gels, i get allergy relief at liquid speed. that's the fast, powerful relief of zyrtec®, now in a liquid gel. zyrtec® is the fastest 24-hour allergy medicine. so i'm ready by the first hole. with new zyrtec® liquid gels, i can love the air®. [ male announcer ] this week only, save up to $12 on zyrtec® products at zyrtectv.com and in sunday's paper. somewhere in america... there's a home by the sea powered by the wind on the plains. there's a hospital where technology has a healing touch. there's a factory giving old industries new life. and there's a train that got a whole city moving again.

somewhere in america, the toughest questions are answered every day. because somewhere in america, more than sixty thousand people spend every day answering them. siemens. answers. the library of congress announced today that it will archive all the world's tweets. thanks to a partnership with twitter. any public tweet will be made available to the library after six months, library officials explain the agreement as another step of the library's embrace of the digital media. the library already archives more than 167 terra bytes of web-based information, including websites and candidates for national office and website the of members of congress. everything you ever do, say or tweet is now headed to the national gallery, of the library of congress. do you believe it? national car rental knows i'm picky.

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we're back. one of president obama's staunchest union allies, the seiu is behind a third party movement in north carolina to field candidates to challenge three house democrats who voted against health care reform. why would the sciu, friend of the progressives go after democrats and perhaps threaten their hold on power? andy stern is the outgoing, i'm not sure that captures his personality entirely, outgoing president of the sciu, you're leaving the labor movement. you're one of the firebrands. why do you, why do you use punishment as the hard emotion of the labor movement? punishing people, running primary opponents against people. running third-party movements, you're going to end up splintering the democratic party and john boehner is going to be the next speaker, isn't he? to the next speaker, isn't he? >> no, no. i don't think he will be. there is an issue of accountability here.

people like to say we're tired of politicians after our vote the day before the election. >> these guys promise anything? >> larry kissel told us, he lost the first time, he came back again. we asked him specifically. tomorrow i'll ab rechlted at the headquarters of a global corporation, they have workers in north carolina in larry kissell's district. we asked him if there is a bill of health care under barack obama, will you vote for it, he says yes. then he turns his back on these workers. if the workers don't live up to their job, they lose it. >> what about losing the committee chairs? they're three short. election night, you'll be watching, and instead of getting 218 house members she's got 215 because you, anldy stern robbed her of democrats in north carolina. will you be a hero? >> i don't know who i'll be hero to, but to our members, to our members who say that we aren't about democrats and republicans

we're not about what's left or right, what's about right or wrong for people that work. and yes, larry kissell had to think about, did he care that nancy pelosi might lose her seat because he beak his word? and our members are saying hold him accountable. if ramifications are that somehow that one vote we're going to say ended the democratic majority. >> it could. >> anything could. >> sure. >> does that mean you're just blind loyalists to a political party that don't live up to the workers interest? workers say no. >> i would just go to north carolina, you've got a primary opponent in arkansas against blanche lincoln pushing for your issues, fine. good. a good prolabor candidate. can an out and out progressive live in states like north carolina and arkansas? can they win or are you defeating a democrat? >> if you're prohealth, pro-america, projobs, prosharing of the wealth, they can win inny state. >> look at cleeld.

>> max kleeland got attacked viciously, if it wasn't about labor it would have been something else. all the people in the world. >> i know. >> the defense was not, did i vote yes or no -- >> there is an anti-labor bood mood in that part of the country. >> there is and we did not ask kissell to stand up for labor, he stood up for health. you shouldn't give your word and break it. >> here's where i'm going to take your side and shine you up. i'm not a marxist but there's a certain thing about the labor theory of value i like. you work, you ought to get paid for it. the person who inventories something, ought to get paid for it. the person who starts a company should get the advantage of that, right? somebody today buys your company from you, chops it up, that person makes a fortune. all the kids want to be part of the chop shop world like the guy on wall street. >> right. >> what happened to america, these guys are making $4 billion

a year as hedge fund managers and nobody can figure out what they do. whereas the little guy starting a business, a bakery or movie studio, you don't see them making money anymore. the money is going to the guy chopping and shop being. what about that? you're a big thinker. are we ever going to get the money to go to the person who starts the business and works 60 hours a week and sweats it out, comes home at midnight exhausted, is that guy or woman ever going to get their money again? >> let's hope so, because if not, we've lost it, people worked hard, whether it was a steelmill or -- >> why? >> i know you fight this fight, when are we going to win it? >> i think we're going to win it soon because there's no more money left in america except derivatives -- >> are you back with barney and dodd -- >> absolutely. we're trying to hold walmart accountable, these big companies, somebody better hold them accountable. >> i always end up liking you. congratulations for the labor movement. i'll have thoughts about the new

tea party poll. filled with inconsistencies. you're watching "hardball." run out of a dorm room. when we built our first hybrid, more people had landlines than cell phones, and gas was $1.75 a gallon. and now, while other luxury carmakers are building their first hybrids, lexus hybrids have traveled 5.5 billion miles. and that's quite a head start. ♪ you've got to try it,

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let me finish tonight with that "new york times" poll on the tea party. tea party folk are mainly republican. that's no surprise. two-thirds say they vote that way usually or always, only 5% for the democrats. but they're hardly establishment type republicans, only one in 20

says he admires mitt romney, the most mentioned republican candidate for 2012. their big dislike is government itself. they just don't like government, especially the u.s. congress, which they hold primarily responsible for all the federal deficits. the other thing that unifies them are the nearly unanimous belief our country is headed in the wrong direction, and they certainly don't like president obama. is it racial? it's interesting a majority of tea party people think we've given too much attention over the years to the problems of black people. only one in five tea party people says the president shares american values. one in five. oh, yeah, only two in five tea party people are ready to say that obama is even an american. there's a lot of birthers at those tea partiers no matter what they say. what's interesting, by two to one they like social security and medicare. two to one they like the country's largest entitlement programs. the tea party people are quick to say they don't like the

government making people buy insurance but that's what social security and medicare are, you're required to legally inforced insurance. two-thirds don't think global warming is a serious problem. that's among the tea party people. and about the same don't think that glenn beck is a serious problem. in fact they like him. four out of five tea party people see illegal immigration as a serious problem, but then again four out of five people across the country think it's a serious problem. here's an interesting fact. two-thirds of tea party people like sarah palin. but most tea party people aren't able to say she could be president. very interesting. and two-thirds have no problem with store owners telling people they can't walk into their stores openly carrying a gun. no. they're not crazy. that's "hardball" for now.

thanks for being with us. catch us again tomorrow at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern. "countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? tax day and the tea party collide in washington, d.c. >> thanks for coming to the devil's city to help us do the lord's work. >> they're on to them. we're on to this gangster government. >> but will they ever be on to the truth? americans paid less of their income in taxes than any time when george w. bush was president. tonight, the disconnect between rhetoric and reality, and a fascinating poll explains who exactly makes up the tea party. president obama goes to nasa to answer his critics. >> nobody is more committed to man space flight, to human exploration of space than i am.

>> the president says forget the moon. it's time to aim for mars. buzz aldrin, the man who dances with the stars, joins us to talk flying to the stars. the west virginia mine tragedy, the president says no death toll is acceptable for running unsafe mines and says the government will stand on the side of the miners. >> we owe them more than prayers. we owe them action. we owe them accountability. >> the mine owners say the president doesn't know what he's talking about. an eruption leads to disruption for millions of european travelers. a gigantic cloud of ash grounds much of europe's aircraft. when will the volcano stop, and what if an even bigger eruption happens? all that and more now on "countdown."